Hemdeep (00:09)
Welcome to Big Ideas in Microscale, the podcast where we explore groundbreaking research happening at the microscale where microinnovations makes a big impact. We're excited to showcase the incredible work being done by our users from around the world who are pushing the boundaries of microfluidics, lab on the chip, organ on a chip and beyond. Through these conversations, we hope to learn from their experiences, uncover their insight and bring their big ideas to wider audience. So whether in a lab,

On the go, we're just curious about the future of microtechnology. Join us as we dive into big ideas at Microscale.

Alexandre (00:57)
You

Hemdeep (00:59)
Welcome back to Big Ideas at Microskill. I'm Hemdeep, your host and co-founder of CreativeCADWorks, CADWorks 3D, and ResinWorks 3D.

Robin (01:08)
And I'm Robin, the co-host and technical writer on the marketing team. Over the last two episodes, we've been chatting with Alex LeBlond, a master's student in chemical engineering at McGill University, exploring how he and his team are pushing the boundaries of sustainable material science using mycelium, the root life structure of fungi.

Hemdeep (01:28)
First, we looked at the benefit of mycelium and its potential to replace styrofoam packaging. Then we dove into the science behind optimizing mycelium growth using a variety of techniques such as microfluidics and internal gelation.

Robin (01:42)
If you missed those episodes, definitely go back and check them out. They'll give you the full picture of just how far this research has come. We'll be right here when you're ready to get back into this one. This week, we're entering the next phase of his research. Alex shares how he and his team are using SPG emulsification, a technique involving a porous membrane to produce highly uniform mycelium alginate beads, boosting consistency and accelerating colonization.

Hemdeep (02:09)
We'll also explore exciting new experiments and research directions like testing 3D colonization environments, the possibility of rehydrated beads from remote constructions, and even brain-sized mycelium structures that might one day help us explore fungal intelligence.

Robin (02:28)
This episode isn't just about optimization. It's about imagination, sustainability, and the future of living materials. So, let's jump right back into Big Ideas at Microscale.

Hemdeep (02:40)
Does that fully address the issue of the size? Do you still not get varying sizes even using that technique or is there a fix for that?

Alexandre (02:50)
So yeah, this is one thing that we saw is that unfortunately it's not consistent. So even though we shake it for quite some time, the size distribution is still not optimal. And we have quite a wide distribution. So we've started using this tool, which is called the ⁓ SPG emulsion, which is kind of sending this liquid through this porous membrane. So kind of like a strainer. And this way, always make particles of the optimal size. So you can choose.

that the pore size, for example, are 50 micron, which is around the optimal size of mycelium that we need. And this way, can make a particle size. They're going to become just a little bit bigger, so probably around two to three times the size, so between 100 and 150 micron in size when it's going to be in the oil phase. This way, we can continuously obtain those optimally sized particles with the SPG for when we make our alginate.

Robin (03:45)
So it's your vinaigrette that's being passed through the fine mesh sieve, let's say, remake it.

Alexandre (03:51)
It's

like kitchen terms. So not exactly, but yes. We're making this veningrette with the SPG system. So first we have our water phase that is going into, so our water phase, which is basically mycelium and alginate. We're passing it through this SPG membrane. And this way, we'll make the optimally sized particles with mycelium in it.

Hemdeep (04:14)
And this membrane that's coated around your mycelium, it? This membrane ⁓ obviously is biocompatible, but is there a trigger that allows the mycelium to activate and start growing? Does it break through this membrane when it's now put into a material? how does that function? is there this barrier? Is there any restrictions that the barrier causes for the growth of the mycelium?

Alexandre (04:41)
So I probably just want to touch a little bit more about the SPG itself since the SPG is just used ⁓ as kind of this mesh material to make the When the bead is out of the membrane, it's just used to make the emulsion. So just to make the optimally sized, for example, ⁓ alginate particle. But then it's going to be in oil, it's going to stir, we're going to gel the beads. the alginate, we are going to put some acid. This way with the alginate in our solution, there's also some calcium carbonate.

that will make the alginate become stiff and become this sort of hydrogel. And this is very soft and very porous. even, for example, when we let the mycelium culture into the beads of alginate beads, the mycelium is able to get out of the alginate very quickly. There is not a problem. It's a very porous material. And this is not a problem for the mycelium to get out of the alginate and able to grow into the material.

Robin (05:40)
And have you already started testing the seeding of the alginate beads?

Alexandre (05:45)
So not yet. We are still developing this technique, especially with the SPG. We're into the next step. We are into this step. This is the steps that we're about to take in the next few weeks. We had some different projects that have been coming around as well that, unfortunately, didn't make me able to really finish this part yet. This is the next step. So I couldn't tell you exactly what's the time frame, for example, how faster we are at the moment if we are. But the preliminary tests are saying that.

it could be faster for the overall colonization. we're not there yet. But very soon, we should be able to get some very interesting results, even with the mechanical emotion, just to test how fast we can get those materials to be able to be made.

Robin (06:29)
And how long does actually like that process, like the SPG emulsion process take? Because I know overall you're looking to reduce production time. Is this like a very complicated process where now actually you're increasing the time it takes to get to do the first stage, like substrate seeding.

Alexandre (06:50)
So would say it increases by a little bit. So for sure, need more time. need a little bit more resources to be able to make this. The total time, I'd say, to be able to fully obtain the beats take me a couple hours. So it's very not that long. If we're able to save days, I think it's a very good investment to be able to make this. When, for example, we take our mycelium, for example, and we put it into our substrate, this is just very quick.

But if we take just a couple extra hours to make optimally sized particles that can be well dispersed as well in the overall material, we think that this is a very good investment to speed up this overall colonization process. Yeah, for sure.

Robin (07:33)
Sure.

So then you kind of told us already, like, your next step is optimizing the SBG process. Was there any other kind of research questions that you're looking to start testing in the future besides that?

Alexandre (07:48)
Yes. So we're also thinking of doing the same experiment that we did with the plugs, but in three dimensions. So kind of making this transparent soil and really see the difference in the size, but in different spatial confirmation, there's also location as well that will make an impact. So for example, can we put it at different distances? For example, just more closer to the outside, just from the outside of the material, since it's going to form this very rigid

type of ⁓ barrier on the outside. could this be enough to make our material? Since the mycelium, strangely enough, will always want to go to the air ⁓ interface, the air solid interface, and form this very rigid coat. So now our question is, we just, for example, put it just, for example, on the exterior? It's going to form the interior just a little bit, but it's mainly going to form the exterior if this could help us speed up the production process. This is kind of our question.

Another one of our questions that we're seeing right now.

Hemdeep (08:48)
Do you

ever foresee that these type of beads could be created in a factory and then it would be shipped out? So there would be, you'd be able to transport it on site using raw products that is readily available and then make molds at that point.

Alexandre (09:05)
This is exactly one of our questions that we're going to be testing. So for example, can we dehydrate those beads and ship it somewhere else? Could this be a good way of transporting this to, for example, other people and collaborators if this is something that could work? Because as I mentioned, the optimal fragment size grows extremely rapidly in two days. So we will need to figure out a way to stop it from growing. And then as soon as we put it, for example, we rehydrate them.

it just starts growing. So this is one of our questions that we also want to test ⁓ with those beads.

Robin (09:41)
you pun on doing this all before you finish your masters in six months?

Alexandre (09:45)
Yes, yes, it's a very ambitious plan, but it's very fun. It's very fun. have a lot of it's a lot of work and we have a lot of other projects as well going on as well. So for sure it's going to be some busy times. This is a crazy idea that came from Chris that we're testing at the moment. We did our first run. So his question was, could we make, for example, a mycelium material that had the size kind of of a brain and

Could we put EEG, so it's kind of the little helmet that you put to have like kind of, that measures brain waves. And can we see, for example, if the fungus is conscious, is it responding, for example, to stimuli? And since we have a collaborator at the neuro at McGill, that's the neurological department and hospital at McGill, we actually tested it. We made a brain sized mushroom. We put the EEG on top of it and recorded for over a weekend.

the overall electrical activity of the mushroom. And we're planning on testing, can we test with this response, example, to stimuli to a lot of different other type of questions, for example, can we put it like under anesthesia? Can we put it like under chloroform and see the brain waves or the, well, I guess this one would be the mycelium waves, kind of just go down and go under full anesthesia.

Robin (11:07)
Have you ever seen or played The Last of

Hemdeep (11:09)
Imagine

that a brainwave reads out, get me a beer or something like that.

Robin (11:13)
If that happens, I blame you guys.

Alexandre (11:15)
Yeah, I've the episode. Yeah, the mini-series, yeah.

Hemdeep (11:19)
Now in terms of other bio materials that you could make in terms of the fact that you guys are using wood as the actual material that my ceilings working with You could use it just about any biological material that's available, correct? Like, you know in several countries they use dung Buffalo dung to build their homes. They use it as brick so effectively if you had some sort of ⁓ mycelial beads of some sort you could

help them create actual bricks rather than the flat paddies that they use for structure.

Alexandre (11:52)
Yes, the only thing is the type of mycelium that we need to use need to, for example, ⁓ decay the wood, for example. This is the type of particular ⁓ species, but I'm sure there's other species as well. can degrade other specific material, but then it gets a little bit more complicated. think just with with a straw, we're seeing a little bit more problems just because the straw, it's coated with waxes and this is very difficult for the mycelium to be able to degrade comparably to just sawdust. So we need some specific type.

of ⁓ mushroom to be able to degrade, for example, other sort of material. But in terms of the wise of other ⁓ construction applications, companies are starting to make also like ⁓ polyurethane replacement for installation panel in your homes. For example, you the blue panel that are used in your home for installation? Well, since MySim also has some very good installation properties, we can also put them in walls. So as long as your wall does it or not, get a lot of water.

which I know if that happened to you recently, close to where you are, but in Montreal we had some really big floodings and this would be a ⁓ very big problem, for example, if all your panels would be made of mycelium. But as long as your mycelium panel does not take any water or any big humidity, I think I saw on the website of that company that it can last for up to 20 years in your house.

Robin (13:13)
Following up on that, again, when you autoclave it, essentially it can't grow anymore. If it is exposed to large amounts of water, is it possible that it does come back alive or it starts growing? Or is it just that it falls apart?

Alexandre (13:27)
Well, I think there's just going to be mold that's going to be started going on it and then it's going to just start degrading. I think there's some research when I went to a conference ⁓ over the summer, some people were talking about making a live building made like are just the my sim is just kept alive for the building that can just keep on living and living and use this self regenerative characteristic to, for example, if there's a damage in the wall, it just repairs and fuse back together and stay.

and just remake this, would be a really good alternative to other sorts of material that are not self-regulatory, where in that case, the myosin would be self-regulatory.

Robin (14:08)
and would it grow mushrooms as well on the wall?

Alexandre (14:10)
No, don't think so. it could be, I think they're trying to limit the fruitification to not have like spores going everywhere. But I'm sure it could be an interesting party, especially if you have some really rare mushroom. That could be interesting.

Robin (14:25)
It's all world hunger while we're at it, you know?

Alexandre (14:27)
Exactly. The overall idea of our research is can we try to optimize it and try to also increase the resilience of mushroom, for example. There's a lot of problems of, for example, bringing the mushroom that is outside and bringing it into the lab. And with this finding the optimal size of mushroom, could we try, for example, to find that for other types of mycelium and then be able to colonize it and bring it into the lab?

to cultivate, for example, rare species of mushroom, but also for antibiotics. As we know, penicillin was developed from fungus. could we try it? And there's so many different fungus that we just cannot bring into the lab and study them. This could be very good avenue as well for this to be able to find the optimal size and resilience of the mushroom that makes a mushroom and the mycelium resilient that it can survive and adapt to the overall

a more hostile environment, which is basically the lab, and we can start cultivating it. So this could be also another type of vision that we can envision for this sort of question and this problem that we're seeing.

Hemdeep (15:34)
And you could use any other plant that has a root system for this type of project, can you? Or is the fungus kingdom really the only ⁓ type of species that you'd be able to use?

Alexandre (15:47)
That's a good question. think typically the other sorts of plants are going to develop leaves and going to get a lot of a nutrient from just photosynthesis in general. So I'm unsure if this could work. That would be a good question. I'm not unfortunately a plant biologist and would not be able to get a very good idea on this. But if, for example, we were to feed enough nutrients, maybe it could help for the plant to be able to absorb and be able to grow. That's a good question.

Hemdeep (16:17)
Because that thought crossed my mind. was like, wow, there's so many more root plants out there. We shouldn't try that. then you're right. I think the fact that the issue that you would have is that photosynthesis is the big issue. That's a regenerative process for other plants as opposed to a fungus.

Alexandre (16:33)
I don't know if there is other just feeding, like for example, some like simple sugars, for example, if it's able to be absorbed by the roots, if this could help the plants not have to necessarily do photosynthesis. So this is a great question. We need to ask my dad to have some more questions.

Hemdeep (16:53)
Your dad's a biologist or?

Alexandre (16:54)
He has an orchid greenhouse. That's where I get lot of some of my ideas, for example, for plants and all this. Well, as you saw in the background probably.

Hemdeep (17:04)
Yeah, I can see it. It's such a nice one there.

Alexandre (17:06)
And yeah, but that's also as well where I got kind of this like eco mind and all this. It's really from my dad since he also does not use any pesticides or any this. So what we're seeing right now is this is kind of a big issue. I don't know if you've seen as well, like everything that's happening with like glyphosate and all this. So it's kind of an interesting trend that we're seeing right now. And this is

what got me more into like kind of the sustainability and all this. And sometimes when I have some questions about mushroom, was like, I don't know why my mushroom is doing this or is doing that. like, have you thought about this? I'm like, ⁓ this is interesting. So maybe you have probably some insights on the, can for example, if you just use, for example, simple sugars or something I could overcome for the synthesis, I can help the plants be able to.

Hemdeep (17:54)
Wow, that was extremely interesting and insightful. Alex, thank you very much for joining us. You gave us a very good insight into what sustainable packaging looks like, whether it's now or into the future. Thank you.

Alexandre (18:08)
Well, thank you for inviting me. was a very pleasure to chat as well and to meet you all. So really, I appreciate the opportunity to also talk about my research as

Hemdeep (18:19)
And with that, we've reached the end of our series with Alex LeBlanc here on Big Ideas at Microscale. Over the past three episodes, we followed Alex's research in sustainable materials using mycelium to reimagine the way we can see packaging by creating a green biodegradable alternative.

Robin (18:37)
We learned how early experiments led to powerful discoveries about optimization of mycelium colonization, and then looked at techniques that can provide a more scalable solution. We even looked beyond packaging, identifying applications in construction and living architecture. Alex's work is a powerful reminder that innovation often begins with curiosity and then grows when sustainability, creativity, and technology intersect.

Hemdeep (19:05)
Thank you, Alex, for joining us. Join us next time on Big Ideas at Microscale. We'll be joined by Chen Li, a fellow PhD student at McGill University. Here's a sneak peek of that conversation.

Chen (19:18)
I'm a bit bold in how I use the instrument. You know, I'm not that careful. I just like, I just kind of use it. don't really care. And then maybe, I think maybe it's me. I don't know, but yeah, it did happen pretty often back then when I was on the grid.

Robin (19:34)
Can I ask what instrument you are using?

Chen (19:38)
Peace.

Alexandre (19:39)
So here's

Chen (19:41)
But there's a lot of sometimes like new new instrument right now we have and we have to kind of try to figure out like we got I remember we got a plastic injection molding machine back then. I was not like careful with it to not break out just fully testing it like trying to get the get the thing done.

Hemdeep (20:01)
guess

a product manufacturer should all be reaching out to you and just giving it these brand new equipment so that you can fully test the capabilities and the absolute limits to test everything.

Robin (20:10)
beta testing.

Chen (20:12)
If

that Rolex

Alexandre (20:13)
this.

Robin (20:15)
Thanks for tuning in to Big Ideas of Microscale. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to follow us and stay up to date. You can listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or watch the full video on YouTube. You can also follow us for more updates and behind the scenes content on LinkedIn, Instagram, Blue Sky, and X. We're Cadworx3D across the board. That's spelled C-A-D-W-O-R-K-S-3D.

For show notes, paper references, and bonus resources on today's topic, visit our website, catworks3d.com. That's spelled C-A-D-W-O-R-K-S 3D.com.

Hemdeep (20:56)
Thank you for tuning in and as always stay curious, keep exploring and never stop asking the big questions that are shaping our world. Whether you're in the lab, on the go or just curious about the future of technology, join us as we continue to dive into big ideas at Microscale.